64: Lessons from Sports Leadership with Greg Burton | The New Generation Leader Podcast

Dive into Greg Burton’s journey in sports leadership, revealing key traits of effective leaders and the impact of VCU’s Center for Sports Leadership.

Why it matters: Burton’s insights offer a unique perspective on leadership, emphasizing authenticity, resilience, and the power of empowering others, alongside the success of VCU’s program in shaping future leaders.

The big picture: Through memorable sports moments and reflections, the conversation underscores the importance of individuality in leadership and learning from failure.

By the numbers: Highlighting the Center for Sports Leadership master’s program at VCU, Burton points to its focus on partnerships and experiential learning, backed by the notable achievements of its alumni.

The bottom line: Burton’s narrative stresses finding one’s own leadership path, embracing failures as learning opportunities, and the value of patience and balance in both professional and personal life.

Connect with Greg

Full Transcript – Episode 64

Aaron Lee 00:20

Looking back on your career, your experience, you’ve covered a lot of ground, what stands out to you as your best sports memory?

Greg Burton 00:31

Man, you’re starting with a big one here. I think my love of sports probably started in 1908. I love sports growing up, but in 1982 significant things happen one, the miracle max. And I just remember watching that and just being riveted. I didn’t really know much about the Olympics, but they were in Lake Placid. So they weren’t, you know, like relatively close. I grew up just outside of Philadelphia. And so to watch the Miracle on Ice, which I think probably people remember wasn’t even live right. It was taped, delayed, which is crazy. So just seeing that and then winning the gold medal was like resonated so much with me and then about so I’d say, eight months later, the Phillies won their first World Series and I grew up outside of Philadelphia. I’m a huge Phillies fan. And my dad actually got two tickets to Game Six and took me calm, older brothers, my younger brother didn’t go and he’s been pissed off about it basically for 50 years. And so those two things like my love of sports, like nothing will ever be going to the 1980 World Series and seeing the Phillies win the World Series with my dad, tug McGraw striking out Willie Wilson, like nothing will ever top that. And I’ve been at some really cool stuff. So that’s really, really, really neat. Professionally, I’ve been so blessed to just go to so many different events, pro College, amateur High School, everything. I’d say probably number one, though, is my first job in TV was at a small station in Idaho Falls, Idaho, which is about two hours north of Salt Lake City, but we covered the Utah Jazz, Karl Malone was he had a cabinet Idaho, his wife’s from Idaho. So there’s all these connections. So we covered every game. And I covered the 1998 NBA Finals, which was Jordan, Michael Jordan’s last game with the bulls and was there for that whole series and, and in the locker room. And so covering Jordans last game with the bulls, and that team was like absolutely amazing, right? I mean, Steve Kerr, Dennis Rodman. It was ridiculous. It was Yeah, that’s probably at the at the very, very top. But I’ve been to so many different things. I mean, I’m wearing my VCU stuff. Obviously. I work at VCU now covering their run to the Final Four, amazing, Virginia Tech playing for the National Championship Michael Vick’s freshman year in 2000. That was just incredible in so much fun. And so yeah, I’ve been really blessed.

Aaron Lee 02:53

That was an incredible era of the bulls, the jazz, and I remember following both of those teams, and it was it was just fun, fun sports to watch. And tune in and watch. Watch all of those runs. Those man trip down memory lane brings. Teams

Greg Burton 03:16

were so good Stockton and Malone are so I mean, they’re obviously both Hall of Famers, they were so incredible to watch. And like they were probably the like the better more talented team but like once again, Jordan will the bulls that was when he had the flu game right that seat that in that series and just yeah, that just to be able to say I saw Jordan and his prime that was that’s pretty special.

Aaron Lee 03:39

Yeah. Stockton and Malone. You, you put those two guys next to each other. And there’s so much it’s like the optimal yin and yang. Yes. Partnership collaboration. Okay, so let’s, let’s turn this a little bit in all of these settings. You’ve been in what stands out to you and watching leaders, leaders, you’ve worked for people you’ve worked alongside? And obviously having front row seats to a lot of this. You’ve seen leaders in action on the court on the field, who are the example leaders that stand out to you?

Greg Burton 04:15

Um, you know, so I would say a couple of things that I’ll do you want me to do traits first, like things like common common threads or go right to the people?

Aaron Lee 04:24

Yeah, let’s let’s talk traits.

Greg Burton 04:26

I think all the best, like leaders that I have been around and that might be players, coaches. I mean, I work for one of the best down at VCU. I’ll tell you a little bit about her name’s Carrie Lacroix, my boss but they all have this uncommon drive to be excellent. I don’t want to say it’s a perfectionism because it’s not because they understand that’s unattainable. But it’s the strive to always improve to always get better, sort of individually but then as part of the team, and and it’s almost always in like a team concept. Like they want to get better but for the for the thing that’s bigger than themselves, right? So the organization, the company, the team, the the school, whatever it is, they just have this uncommon drive. And then I think they all handle whatever you want to call it. You know, failure or handle adversity they, they, they’re able to process it, compartmentalize it, accept it for what it is and move on and they’re not beaten down by it. There’s a resiliency, I guess you could say like, man, we’re all we’re not at 100% Every day, few people are, you know, like when a team has a great season. It always frustrates me like when somebody has a great season, and they’re like, he made me the greatest ever. I’m like, what, what? He had like three good months, like, that’s good for him or her. But like, then three good months, like what are you talking about? Like, everybody wants a berry mahomes Now, right? Like, I think Patrick mahomes is amazing. And we have some common connection, I would do the adversity of Delaware. There’s a bunch of Delaware people that work for the chiefs. And they just said mahomes is the real deal. And everybody was getting on him because he blew up on the sidelines, like, that happens to all of us, right? Like all of us lose our cool. When was the last time you were in a red light and didn’t and went green for five seconds. And somebody’s honking the horn like we all like lose it from time to time. But I think like for the most part, the best leaders are able to just be a little bit more resilient, and they just handle this. My boss likes to say if you can’t handle stress, you can’t handle success. And I love that we tell that to our grad students all the time, VCU, like, yeah, it’s easy when everything’s going great. Of course, it’s but if you can’t handle the stress, compartmentalize it and everybody’s different, that’s what I would say. And then like, oh my gosh, best leaders like like I started thinking about coaches that I’ve been around like Frank Beamer comes to mind. Like I just I think so much of the beamers and Shane’s become a good friend. I’m so happy for him down in South Carolina. But like Frank Beamer, I think what he was able to put together at Virginia Tech, and you know, obviously, they had the run to the national championship, they were so successful. And he also, I guess, the other thing is, like, he’s really good with managing people and personalities, right? Like, because when you have a team, you’re gonna have people from different backgrounds, and people with different personalities and who are the extroverts and who are the introverts, and who are the Taipei’s? Right, and so managing all of that, and I thought beamer was really good at it. There was a football coach at the University of Richmond by the name of Jim Reed, Jim Reed was exceptional at that was this tough guy from New England? And we just would say things like, You got to be tough hat and smack you know, things like

Aaron Lee 07:43

that. Coach Reid was incredible. He was incredible, right?

Greg Burton 07:47

tough, hard and smart. And I always think of that, you know, and then like people like, like, have you ever had party on this park podcast? No, yeah, he should be next. Like, he’s, he’s, he’s key defines leader like, he has made the Richmond sports community so much better. I asked him often, like, dude, how do you even manage the schedule, like, I’m kind of busy, I look like I’m in a coma compared to him. Because he’s always doing appearances and talking and just like, he, and he’s, like, it’s funny. So I talked about the uncommon drive, but then there’s this like, extension where like, but you’re putting others first, you’re always putting like others first to the cause, first, to the team first to the organization first, and he speaks to our grad students too, and talks about like, you know, with the squirrels, they always start it Yes. and work backwards, which you know, can be dangerous sometimes to do that. But like, he’s an exceptional leader. And then I’m, like, I’m just gonna say like, um, so my boss, her name is Carrie law calm, and she’s Executive Director of the VCU center for sport leadership, which is the grad school program, I work we teach the business of sport and teach, you know, we’re, we’re developing the next generation. There it is, right, the name of the podcast, the next generation of leaders in sports through our grad school program. It’s a master’s in sport leadership. And since Kerry took over the program about 12 years ago, it is our program has ascended in ways I think people did not think was possible. And it’s because of her drive. It’s because of her ability to compartmentalize all of her decisions and all of her responsibilities. She is awesome at empowering us to do our jobs without micromanaging there’s a trust there. And that’s why we’re in top 10 in the world. And you know, among the programs, you know, that teach this and so, but like if I met they all are the same, like they have those those common traits,

Aaron Lee 09:40

you know, one of my favorite, there’s so much from your stories that I pull out nuggets and pieces and elements I’ve heard two things I’ll hit on number one, my favorite coach read story was the fact that coach Reid elevated this student part of student athlete so high I knew that he would station assistant coaches and sometimes even himself on the quad in the middle of, you know, the central part of Richmond’s campus to make sure they laid eyes on players heading to their 815 classes first, that’s awesome. That’s awesome. coaches were up in Adam. They were early. And he wanted to make sure they were successful in the classroom, and successful in preparing for life, as well as on the field and just a truly exceptional guy. I overlapped coach Reed, I think one year at Richmond as a student that had followed the team for years before that. The other story I heard just last week, Tony Beasley is a coach for the rangers and is a local guy, and he and party crossed paths decades ago. So this story came up up in Caroline County, Caroline County celebrated Tony recognized him a few weeks ago. And in this celebration, somebody mentioned his nickname, this gets and party knowing, you know, the connections that party has, he’s like, I gotta text the rest of the Rangers coaching staff that I know and tell them, hey, you’re not gonna believe this, Tony has a nickname you’ve never heard of. So he was there said I fully expect this gets to show up on Tony

Greg Burton 11:21

somepoint. Nice or have so that’s so good. That’s,

Aaron Lee 11:26

I think there’s something about that, in leaders in watching, you know, personalities like party and party truly does have a contagious personality. And I think part of our our challenge is watching leaders who fit a certain persona and say, oh, I want to be like that. Oh, yeah. Instead of breaking it down to those building blocks, the ingredients you talked about, of good leaders, how you respond to failure, and react and respond and build towards success, how you handle stress and chain, all things I wrote about in the new generation leader book, those are the building blocks, but we have to be uniquely us like there’s no way I can be a party, there’s no way you can be party, truly only party at a subset of the world can be party because of personality and communication styles and tendencies. How have you seen those individualized personality styles, communication styles, you know, the the opposites of party? How have you seen them be successful in, in the leaders you’ve seen? Yeah,

Greg Burton 12:26

that’s, that’s so good. So one of our core values at the Center for sport leadership is authentic. You know, we think we were pretty good roadmap, you know, and, and maybe even a formula, but we want you to be you, right? We’re not trying to create 40 or 50, you know, automatons that all do the same thing. We know that everybody’s unique, and we want people to be uniquely different, you know, want them to be themselves. And so I think that like, it is a struggle sometimes, like if someone is not enthusiastic or energetic or has a big personality, like, I’m like, I’m loud, right? Everybody knows, my whole team knows I’m the loudest person in the room, right? It’s Italian, talking my hands and all that kind of stuff. But like, that doesn’t mean if you’re not like that you can’t be effective, right? And there are a lot of times, I wish I could be like more chill or calm or just a little bit more focused. And so I think there’s a lot of a lot of great leaders who are like, I always use the words like, um, they’re very, like intentional and deliberate. Right? They maybe don’t respond right away. Like they’re thinking, okay, they’re processing. And I learned from that, because I want to be that, like, I think 15 years doing a radio show, conditioned me to just respond like this to everything right? Hey, what do you think’s gonna win the game this week? Right. I don’t tend to process I think in my new role, like, I can take time, like, we like to say like, is this a big deal? Or is this a big deal right now? Right. And so like, I think that’s a great thing. Like, alright, fires come all all day, right? Drama, you know, things you have to address, like, is it a really big deal? Like, is this something that’s going to impact our core business, our team? Or is it just like a big thing right now? Oh, the uniforms didn’t show up? All right, well, they will, you know, something like that. And so we asked her questions, and I think that helps me compartmentalize sometimes. And I think the people that are not, I don’t even know because I don’t even think introvert so like there is a in between between extrovert and introvert. It’s called ambivert. Right? Yep. And it’s kind of like your little uh, both me I’ll tell you what, I like my downtime. You know, when you’re on 24/7, especially this time of year, you’re going to, you know, holiday parties and whatnot. Like, don’t you just want to sit in your chair and watch the game and not talk to anybody? Sometimes. So I think those people have a skill that’s very, very powerful in that they just have a calmness or a focus, you know, and in tensional spirit that really we need and their level of consistency is great, right there. Like, we all crave consistency from our, in our relationships. And so that consistency is just like so reassuring and leads to confidence. And so, yeah, I think there’s, there’s a lot of folks like that, like, parties kind of took a step back a little bit from the squirrels and a couple of the guys, like, first of all, nobody’s gonna have a have a personality like party, but like, these guys are so good and so talented. But there are a couple of them are a little bit more, you know, chill, that’s great. Like, that’s gonna be perfect. And so, and our team is like that at VCU. And, you know, like, and McLaughlin, who’s our athletic director, like he’s put a team together, same thing that like, right, you don’t want everybody to be the same, you don’t want everybody to have the same strengths. And so I think that’s really important, or that’s

Aaron Lee 15:51

one of the things we talked about with leaders is laying out, we use a tool called the five voices, which we’ll link to in the show notes. And part of that tool helps us to see, hey, 18% of us are wired towards, hey, we’re going to speak up first, we’re going to jump into the conversation. 82% of us are not, we’re going to think about it, we’re going to watch, we’re going to reflect we’re going to be more thoughtful, and maybe even deferential to a fault. And so our goal is not to become the other one. But to figure out, hey, for me, I’m on the loudest end, I always think I have the right answer. So sit down in a room, I’m gonna tell you what I think. But I’ve recognized and this is part of the key is I got to balance that with the other end of the spectrum. And be more patient, more deliberate, use the word intentional. I love that word, be more intentional to hear what other people are thinking. Because then I can take that put that together with what I was already thinking was a brilliant idea. And it becomes even better. But if we don’t do that, and we’re accidental is how we we talked about the opposite of intentional, we’re just accidental doing our thing. You know, it’s like, ready fire aim all the time. And that doesn’t help anybody succeed. No,

Greg Burton 17:12

no, I mean, we’re all going a million miles an hour sometimes. And like, if you can just build in time to pause and reflect, right? And think like, well, what’s best right now? Like, sometimes you just need a moment, right? We just needed a moment, because we’re all going a million miles an hour. And we you know, like, oh, either I like it like that. But then you realize, like, but is that best? Is that truly effective? You know? Are you just busy? Are you really like making an impact? Are you being productive? Right? And so no, I totally agree this

Aaron Lee 17:47

time of year, especially as things ramp up, I always found in my rhythms of the year when I pushed so hard and ended up crashing, the sickness going around like that was when I got sick, was you just push and push and push? And you finally take a break? And like, Oh, I’m, I’m on vacation now, but I’m sick. That’s better than help anybody either?

Greg Burton 18:09

No, no, like, I even when I was scheduling this podcast, I wanted to make sure I did it at a time where like, I wasn’t just squeezing it in. Right, right. And I think it took a couple of weeks, you know, I might have pushed it just because like, Okay, I’ll have some time. You know, on this morning, I’ll be at home and I can just chill and I’ll be focused on I’m not gonna be distracted by a million different things. And so like, yeah, just sort of making sure like knowing, knowing what like we talked about, like, what are your higher energy moments? And what are your low energy moments? And like, if especially if you can know when your low energy moments aren’t, well, didn’t don’t schedule stuff, then you can help it right. Like, we talked about that with our students, you know, like, Are you a morning person, you’re step late person, like that kind of stuff. Yeah, knowing that can just help you be more productive.

Aaron Lee 18:57

When did you start to figure out some of those things for yourself? Honestly,

Greg Burton 19:00

not until I came to work at VCU, like I never thought about it. I just didn’t. So that was 2009. I was still doing the radio show for ESPN Radio. But I had stopped working in TV and they’d asked me to teach a class at VCU and Carrie had been my friend. So I’d known Carrie, and she’s like, I want you to teach this class. And I said, No. And she said, why? And I said, because I’ll suck at it. And she’s like, I think you’d be awesome at it. And she had way more confidence. That’s the other thing, like letting people know I have confidence in you like her letting me know that she had confidence in me to be a teacher was really important to be an instructor right at grad school instructor. And then it just sort of snowballed, but being around the super smart people forced me to think about things that like I just had never really thought about, and then now you’re part of something that’s bigger than yourself, and Kerry’s telling me her vision for this program. And then I was like, Are you saying you want to be the best program in the world? And so it’s like she paused because that’s on her vibe to like, say something like that. It’s more me. and I are because I think we can. And that’s what we’re building. And so it just forced me to start to think about that. And then I’m wearing different hats. I did the radio show until COVID. I think that was really tough because I was still doing this radio show, which I loved, but like trying to balance two things, that was really, really difficult. And so it just forced me to sort of like think about, okay, what’s most important, let’s prioritize our time, you know, probably wasn’t taking care of myself, right? Like, you know, you can’t do it. All right, like so like, it’s a call to entrepreneurs to dilemma, right? You have a business and you have a family or friends and you have your health. And so I think just trying to figure out what’s best, but as far as like, the leadership and just being the best I can be for our team. I really didn’t think about it, and then it’s gotten better the last like five years, like but we’re always resetting we’re always evaluating this is the least complacent bunch I’ve ever been on is the best team I’ve ever worked on. Now, I worked in media and pretty much every media teams dysfunctional, like as a as a role, you know, newsrooms are kind of dysfunctional, but like, the team I’m with at VCU is like the best team I’ve ever worked for very supportive, and, like, challenging, but supportive. And so yeah, and I still do every day, like just, you know, try to read and try to, you know, reflect and just try to not be complacent, like can I tell quick story, go for it. And they think I’m a better teacher than I think I am. I guess we’re gonna worse critics. And you know, we get evaluated in our evaluations are great. And so just like when you think you have it all figured out. And I had a student this semester, who absolutely hated my class. And I could tell, she was an I had recruited her to the program, she’s exceptional. She’s so smart. And I shoes just completely shut down in my class, like not paying attention, couldn’t give a rip, I finally called her in my office. And I was like, What’s going on, she maybe missed an assignment, which was so not like her. And she goes, everything you’re talking about, I already learned in undergrad, because she went to a really high level undergrad program and study like, I mean, so my class is sports, Media and Communications, and we’re not teaching you how to be a broadcaster. But I’m trying to explain how the media industry works. She just wasn’t interested. And that was such a failure on my part to not pick up on that sooner. Now, it’s hard because I have 26 students, and 24 are probably like, interested. They don’t know this. But I’ve got these two over here that do. So how do I serve those two? I really, it was such an eye opener for me to try to Yes. If we say like, well, I’m serving the most people. So that’s a win. Yes, I was. But couldn’t stop focusing on this young woman who wasn’t get what she signed up for. I probably grinded on it a little bit too hard. But we were able to come up with some stuff, those moments where you get kind of like a two by four upside your head, you know, really help, you’re good, you should still, you know, be confident your abilities. But don’t get complacent and don’t think you have it all figured out. And like so that was a big, a very recent eye opening moment for me to always sort of be aware of that and have that awareness.

Aaron Lee 23:11

My friend Jeremy, who was on a couple episodes ago, he says, the best feedback we can give is a two by four wrapped so that it’s a little bit soft, and it doesn’t break a bone, but you still feel it here and

Greg Burton 23:25

we call that we also call it hug punch hug or a compliment, you know, you know, I mean a criticism sandwich, right? So like to say something nice, something not so nice. And then something nice again, it works great with our grad students hug, punch, hug. Yes,

Aaron Lee 23:40

you got it, you got to talk about these tough things. There’s so many environments, so many teams and organizations we work with that don’t have the hard conversation. They never get to that point. You don’t reach a level of excellence, you end up being complacent because you’re trying to be so nice. And so there’s a an element to getting to the next level that you’ve got to tell the truth sometimes Oh,

Greg Burton 24:02

like coviz get there. It’s all over. You know, when those Instagrams or tiktoks, where there’s a lot of Kobe leadership stuff, right? Kobe Bryant, I think he’s the one and he’s like, leadership is lonely. Oh, my God. Yes. Harsh said, like, oh, when everything’s great, and we’re celebrating, and we’re winning games, and we’re ranked number one, everybody’s on the, you know, everybody’s ready for the party. When when you got to tell someone like we you know, whether you have to fire someone, right? Or you have to give someone a, you know, a bad grade and they thought they did whatever that is crucial conversations critical, you know, tough conversations. That’s really difficult. leadership’s doing the right thing when nobody else wants to do it. So yeah, I couldn’t agree more. Talk

Aaron Lee 24:41

a little bit about the Center for sport leadership and what the program is leading students through and and where some of them have landed. Yeah,

Greg Burton 24:50

man. I mean, that’s what I get paid for. I love this. The VCU center for sport leadership is a master’s level program. The degree is a master’s in sport leadership, we teach the business of sport We have an on campus program and an online program. The on campus program is 12 months most or two years, ours is only one year. It’s very immersive and experiential. Our students are in the classroom in the morning. And then every student has a graduate assistantship, essentially a part time job that is funded, and they’re working in the afternoon so that the idea is what they’re learning in the classroom in the morning, they’re applying in their GA in the afternoon. Most of our GA’s work for VCU athletics, right. They work for a marketing department, facilities, events, Operations, Business Office development, fundraising, office alumni relations, summer coaches, right, I’ve worked for our men’s and women’s basketball team. And so you know, we like to say they’re getting world class instruction in real world experience. And when they graduate, they’ll have this master’s degree from a top 10 program in the world, but they’re also gonna have the first line on their resume. Our partnerships, I mean, we have partnerships with basically every sport organization in Richmond, even the you have our right, our rival, so to speak, but like we have so many great people over there that give our students such a great experience. I think the reason we have been successful people always say are students. We just finished some interviews for next year. And they’re like, What do you think sets you guys apart? i My answer is vol. People. Right? I’ve already talked about carrying everything. We put a premium on people. And we put a lot of time, energy and resources into the student experience. We want our students to have an amazing experience in the classroom and outside of the classroom. And I think we work really, really hard at that Carrie sort of laid up roadmap, and then we all sort of, you know, jumped on board. You know, we are not the biggest art we’re gonna celebrate our 25th anniversary next year. But you know, some of the pure schools like Ohio was the first program like this in the country, Ohio University in Athens, Ohio. They’ve been around for like 60 years, you master’s program, amazing, founded by Mark McCormack right, who basically is the founder of IMG, their exceptional power alumni base. We don’t have the numbers that they do. But I would argue our alumni are as engaged as any program in the world. They care so much. And I think because we work so hard while they’re here, and then the relationship gets better after they graduate. So for example, the president of our alumni board is a guy by the name of Charlie how grew up in Mechanicsville went to Atlee High School, played soccer at Virginia Tech want to be a soccer player, played briefly with the kickers and then came to our program about 15 years ago, got his master’s degree took like an internship with the USGA, the United State Golf Association. He has been with them now for 15 years. He’s the championship director of the US Open, he runs the US Open everything outside the ropes, so he doesn’t set up the course but he runs transportation, hospitality merchandise, that’s all hit this guy who was a soccer player for Mechanicsville. Now, well, I’m not taking credit this is we just put him on this path. But Charlie is like maybe the best example. And he’s our biggest advocate. And this guy who’s like, you know, he’s based out of Pinehurst, but he just got back from running the open at La CC Los Angeles Country Club. And so he’s amazing. We’ve got people that work for the NFL in the NBA, we’ve got a guy who just like through his path, he worked for the Miami Dolphins. Then he started working with the f1 race in Miami, and now he’s doing the f1 race in Las Vegas. NASCAR a ton in college athletics, coaches, administrators, people will often say like, oh, what’s your dream job? We actually don’t ask that question. We asked, What do you like to do? And what are you good at? And we think those are should be two different things. Right? Like, what do you like to do? And then what are you good at? And then can we match the experience with that? And then I don’t need you to figure out the next 30 years. I want you to figure out the next step. Hey, you’re in grad school. Okay, then what’s next? Because I don’t know about you. And I’ve had like, I don’t know, 810 jobs. Right. But if you say you have a dream, if you want to be the GM of the Yankees, great. What is Brian taxman’s path? Any any leader? Okay, how did they get there? Right? What were the steps focus on those first couple steps, not the end. I think that’s what we tried to do. And, you know, we’ve been really fortunate, I mean, at VCU, and the experience that they get is amazing. And, you know, I’m just thinking of like all the other alums and kind of what they do, and like, somebody will have a big win. And, you know, somebody’s a deputy ad, you know, like, Albany is playing for the FCS football semifinals, we have got, you know, their their folks up there, and he’s one of our lungs, and so, texting him and, you know, Charlie, and, you know, with people that work for the commander’s right, and then trying to, you know, figure it out out there. You know, obviously, you have somebody who works for the dolphins and so it’s just really great. I always say like, I’ve had my dream job, I was a sportscaster, I want to be a sportscaster, the sports guys for 30 years. Now I kind of get to help other people find their dream jobs, but like in the first couple of stages, and then just support them along the way. And yeah, we’re so lucky at at VCU. Oh, that we just have those resources, you know, in place. And then we have so much support from the community. Like I was just at the new building out of Henrico right to Henrico Sports and Events Center, which is such a game changer. Dennis buchmeier, you’re talking about another great leader, Dennis, pick Meyer, holy moly, that guy is so amazing. And he’s like, how can we, you know, how can we partner with you guys do more stuff for your students, I’m working with him and Dan Schmidt, who’s on the board of supervisors for Henrico. County, his daughters in our program, and he’s a great friend. And he’s trying to figure out stuff and like the level of collaboration and partnership in Richmond. I know people outside of Richmond wants his podcast, you’ve talked to people all around, like the level of collaboration in the Richmond sports community is one of the reasons our program has been able to be successful, because so many people care about the next generation.

Aaron Lee 30:49

And we talked a few episodes ago with Doug grote, who’s leading the Rocky Top Sports Complex. So okay, Alan Berg’s version of this new Henrico facility. And we talked to Doug right around the time my daughter competed at the new Henrico facility, you know, so much momentum and movement in in sports and opportunities. So you talk about collaboration and an investment and being able to see that, hey, we’re investing in somebody who’s then going to turn around and invest in somebody. And that’s part of the magic is when it multiplies. And it’s not just about one person, there’s so much that we could unpack and probably spend hours reading nation on so many pieces of what you talked about. But I think the key is the path and helping people find the path. It’s about a path, not a destination. And there are steps along that and some of them are hard. And some of them don’t work out. And there’s failure involved in some of them. Go back another guest, Brian Barley was on the podcast earlier this year and talked about that failure, basically, the failure resume, like what do you do with failure, failures, don’t make headlines, but failures made every success story out there. So to be in an environment to walk through it. And as you said, go through that rhythm of classroom learning application classroom learning application, as part of what I love about what we do, is we’re bringing that in, we’re not just saying, Hey, sit in the classroom for a couple hours, and we’ll download everything we know. No, we’re going to spend a little bit of time now go do it. And then let’s recap that the next day. It’s it’s such a transformational learning process. And so that I think, as an ingredient at the Center for sport leadership, no wonder that ingredient, and all the others you’ve touched on have helped make the center of what it is. But

Greg Burton 32:43

thanks for saying that. Yeah, I mean, and you’re right. I mean, we kind of want them to fail. I mean, we’re not gonna let them like crash and burn irreparable harm, like, but like, yeah, we want them to break things. We want them to, to mess up, learn less, because those are where the left. Yeah, that’s, that’s really where it comes from. I think like, we give them a lot of opportunities to do that. And like we also we try not to make any sort of generalizations or stereotypes about any generations, right? So whether you say it’s, you know, Gen Z, or Millennials or whatever, like, we don’t have a luxury to just generalize and paint with a broad brush, we have to figure out how to connect with it. That’s it. Bottom line, how do we connect with these students? What can we do or say, that will motivate them that will inspire them? We could say all these millennials are all these Gen Z. They’re just different. COVID changed everybody. Like, we don’t have that luxury, I don’t think we should do, we have to figure it out? What we do tell them, it’s like, you do not have to have everything figured out. We tell our students you do not have to have to figure it out. We just want you to try. Don’t be inactive. Don’t be you know, the whole paralysis by analysis kind of thing. Like just try, you do not have to have it figured out. We’re going to help you. But what we won’t tolerate is like inactivity,

Aaron Lee 34:02

that’s a really good, there are so many, so many lessons to be learned. Try, try experiment. See, see what works. See what you can do. You know, I loved hearing you talk about your your career in sports casting. Every now and then in that conversation with Doug a couple of weeks ago, we had a lot of trips down memory lane and finish sports. As we started off sports bring up memories. I hadn’t thought about this one in a while though. In seventh grade, I did an internship a one day afternoon internship with Chip target and because I was faster. I went and spent the afternoon with him in the newsroom from like three until 630 At the end of the six o’clock newscast, and after that day, I knew I would not be a sportscaster. In the way that Jeff was because he had to put on makeup. I was like that’s the line in the sand. I’m done on the next career. School or you got all sorts of career options. So, here we are, you know, people say all the time you gotta face made for radio. So turns out a lot of fun. And we’re doing the podcast thing with Greg, awesome conversation of I’ve enjoyed hearing your take on on Sports Leadership and the students you’re building and developing and, and stories about where they’re headed. I want to wrap up with one final question that I asked almost everybody on the podcast, you’ve, you’ve hit on a few of these things. But as you look back in your career, what’s something that you’ve learned later in your career that you wish you had learned earlier?

Greg Burton 35:38

Probably the biggest thing is to I don’t want to say wait, but like, let things sometimes unfold naturally, instead of rushing to make the decision or to act like No, no, I just told our students to, you know, don’t, we won’t tolerate an activity but like to be deliberate. Again, I was conditioned from 15 years down here to always like rack rack rack. And I think sometimes I’ve learned to just like not everything needs to be addressed in the moment, it needs to be addressed, but not in the moment, you know, again, is it a big deal? Or is it a big deal right now? Do I have to address this right now? Or can I just pause and think about it for a little bit. And I wish I had known that sooner? You know, because I think we all stress over, we all have so much stressors in our life, personal professional, everything. And so I just think that would really, really help everyone to just saw, like, not everything needs to be addressed. You don’t have to answer every text immediately. Yes, you should respond. Alright, don’t go someone you know, does in the moment, you know, especially like email, right? You know, I try to, I try to do it like three times a day, like kind of in the morning and kind of around lunch. And then kind of towards the end of the day, instead of being like a prisoner to your inbox the whole time. Yeah, just like, let’s sometimes let things unfold naturally, I think it’s probably the biggest thing.

Aaron Lee 36:58

That’s such a good one. We had a group of middle schoolers downstairs last night talking about that idea. You know, it’s that dopamine hit as soon as it comes when we react and respond. And it was so interesting with these middle schoolers who are relatively new to having a device in hand, trying to help them see, hey, patience is an option. You don’t have to react and respond all the time. I’m

Greg Burton 37:22

glad to use the word patience. I don’t know why I couldn’t probably because I know I don’t have it. I’m not a very I’m not patient. So yes, I need to be being more patient. Last story we I went, there’s a unbelievable professor at VCU School of Business. And same as Dr. Bob Kelly, he would be great for this too. And Bob took all of this to this. We went to Patagonia’s headquarters in Ventura, California, because he had some things like this immersive sort of branding marketing thing is really, really cool. And one of the things we did was every morning, we went to surf school, to like learning to surf. And when I say Learning to Surf, I mean, learning to fall off a surfboard is what we were learning to do every morning in the Pacific Ocean. And then we did this whole thing. And surfing is about two things, patience and balance, right? Patience and like waiting for the right wave, right and to make your move. And then obviously, the balance right on the board balance, you can get up and stand, which I never did. And so I use that surfing analogy a lot. If you can have patience, and balance in your personal life in your professional life. You’re gonna be alright, I

Aaron Lee 38:33

mentioned this a few minutes ago about how many different stops on your career. And as I look back in my own journey, there have been so many times I’ve thought in the moment, hey, we need to do this big initiative right now. And I go on to my next stop, and my my next career move, and three years, five years. That thing that I thought needed to happen five years ago, happens. Maybe it just needed that time. Yeah, you just needed a little more time. And I certainly earlier in my career, like you was not very patient. Oh

Greg Burton 39:11

my gosh. Yeah. I mean, that’s probably Yeah, that’s part of part of the evolution. Right. That’s funny. Well, Greg, thanks

Aaron Lee 39:18

so much for your time today, for our listeners, in Richmond and beyond. How can people connect with you find you and follow what you’re doing and what the center’s doing?

Greg Burton 39:27

Awesome. Yeah, our website is sport leadership.vcu.edu sport leadership.vcu.edu. And my contact information is there. And you can learn a lot about our program. And we’re all over. We’re really heavy into social media. So LinkedIn and Instagram and Facebook and acts so you can find us everywhere. Thank you so much. This is so fun. And thanks for letting me talking about the Center for sport leadership. And I appreciate it, Aaron. Oh, absolutely.

Aaron Lee 39:52

Thanks for the stories, Greg. We’ll link to Greg the center and everything we’ve talked about in the show notes at New Generation leader dot FM.

Jay Smack 40:01

Thanks for listening to the new generation leader podcast. Subscribe today on your podcasting platform. Download the show notes and unlock your true leadership potential at New Generation leader.fm. Thanks for listening today and we look forward to seeing you next time on the new generation leader podcast.